RELAY FLORIST REVIEW of Ready Flowers by Fair-Trading.com.au

Comment - 28 October 2009
I believe I got scammed by ReadyFlowers last week too.

The bunch of flowers I ordered valued on the website as $69 (not including delivery fee) and when received, looked like I could have picked them up from Safeway for $20. I have ordered from various other florists before and $69 worth of flowers did not consist of 3 stems of lillies and 4 small sunflower looking things with a whole lot of 'fill in' branches. I was utterly disappointed and after going to the effort of sending them an e-mail saying that I was extremely unhappy with the delivery of flowers and supplying them with a photo, the following response was provided:

"Dear XXX,
The arrangement seems to have all the required flowers, we send fresh flowers only and as such they are on occasion closed when delivered to the recipient, the lilys will continue to open over the next few weeks.
Kind Regards,
Customer Service"

I'm not stupid. I know that lillies will continue to open over the next few weeks but my original email expressed disappointment in the number of stems provided not the fact that the flowers were closed. I feel extremely ripped off and will puruse this further. Watch out ReadyFlowers.

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Comment - 6 September 2009
ReadyFlowers also make "websites" for the florists which are just re-badged sites of the main readyflowers.com.au website. The site has the florists logos and info. Florists still have to pay membership to receive orders, they also have to pay a setup fee for becoming a member. A setup fee is also payed to setup the rebadged site and commission is still taken from their orders that are directed through their site as well.

All perth florists were also turned off on their system so that their perth based florist owned separately by people involved in readyflowers.com.au would receive all perth orders. There were even a few perth florists paying memberships but would receive minimal orders to keep them happy.

yes... very dodgy indeed! Use good old yellow pages and find a local florist!

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Comment - 5 September 2009
I was supplying flowers for Ready Flowers when they first started and gradually the charges kept going up. I complained to Tom and was told they were cheaper than Interflora which was not true. Then account fees were added. Then they wanted a monthly fee as well to be a member or you couldn't get any orders. I told Tom the expenses were getting up too high to be able to supply quality and was told a good florist should be able to sell space. Then the next thing as well as picture we had a list that was to be supplied to customer as to what was in order so that meant the onus went on florist. The last straw for me was when I accidently found out, as well as all the commission and account fees and member fees shown on invoice, $12.00 was taken off the top of order first before it was sent to a Florist. I believed it had become a fraud so I stopped supplying their flowers. I did try several times to talk honestly to Tom with regard to percentages and was promptly told his father knew all their was to know with regard to maths as he was an expert.

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Comment - 2 September 2009
I'm a florist and dealing with ready flowers. I don't even like them as their flower arrangements are crap. I feel so sorry for the customers that are buying from them as they are not getting their value. I hate them so much I wish they wouldn't send us any more orders.

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Comment by Bernadette - 22 August 2009
I wish I had read this before i made my last two orders through them. I'm in Perth and my sister in Melbourne so for her 30th birthday two weeks ago I made an order through ready flowers - the delivery date was 11th August, the flowers arrived on 12th August. I thought to myself, no more orders outside of Perth because clearly they can't deliver on time. My first order ever through them was in Perth about a month ago and the flowers were delivered on time. Now yesterday, I made an order for my friends birthday. delivery date 28th August - guess what! the delivery was made yesterday!!!! and to top it all off, while ordering, I used my points to get a free balloon - it was never delivered. And worst, the one that kills me - the words for the card had in them a swahili word meaning "sweetheart". This was ommitted from the card. So I thought to myself...if it had been was a french word, would they have included it in the card? Possibly yes.

To say I'm disgusted is an understatement. I'm only thankful that I have made just three orders through them -I will certainly not be going down that road again.

Oh and did I mention that I spoke to the character answering the phone the first time my delivery got messed up and the second time as well - they said they'd call me back and never did. Yesterday's mess up...I'm still waiting for a phone call.

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Comment by Another Perth Florist - 31 May 2009

Re Perth Florists expose of Teleflora's false google local business listings. [HERE]

I cant and don't understand why a business such as Teleflora, one that you would expect to have the highest integrity and honesty appears to have acted extremely inappropriately in its business listings in Google. It begs the question, if they are dishonest in a simple thing like in full view of the public eye then what else happens 'behind the scenes'......

As highlighted by 'Perth Florist' its Subiaco listing is a park, and its Perth listing is St Mary's Cathedral. What of their other listings are 'incorrect' in other states?

Is there not a 'filtering' process to check their listing legitimacy? Or at least an avenue to notify Google of this fraudulent use of their system? can anyone answer this??

It appears Ready Flowers aren't the only ones misleading the public, Teleflora don't seem far behind if this is an indication.....Bruce, you are not doing your organisation any favours in this deception, nor the industry for matter!

Another Real and Honest Perth Florist (and glad to have never assisted Ready Flowers or Teleflora)

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Comment - 26 May 2009
Bloody bunch of goons.... I can just imagine the response (zip) if a florist or consumer requested Rough & Ready Flowers to answer all those commercially sensitive questions in that survey, [SURVEY ARCHIVED HERE] when they can't even provide an Australian address for their own devious rip-off operations.

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Comment by Adelaide Florist - 25 May 2009
Well, well, well, the latest Rough & Ready no telephone number website, www.ReadyPenny.com.au of 12th Floor, Ruttonjee House, 11 Duddell Street Central, Hong Kong (see http://www.readypenny.com.au/terms/), at least seems to be taking heed of what the Fair Trading website requires in the way of declaring commissions by this little number on its About Us page at http://www.readypenny.com.au/information/

"Ready Penny is in business to make profit ... therefore we take a small margin from the orders we place with our suppliers. On average we take a modest fee of AUD$10.00 however ... Ready Penny's wholesale relationships with local suppliers assists in the ability to remain competitive in the online flower market."

I recently got an email on my private Interflora email account inviting me to take Rough & Ready survey [SURVEY ARCHIVED HERE] about creating what they call a Super Florist. It seems that Rough & Ready Flowers has the Interflora database of members and is trying to poach some of them. Not interested myself, unless they totally manage to launder their image and ethics, but I wonder what Interflora thinks of all this?

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Comment - 13 May 2009

I see Ready flowers has a new site being advertised on google adwords, http://www.readypenny.com.au

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Comment by Concerned Florist - 11 May 2009

The boys at Rough & Ready are at it again www.readypenny.com.au

Not surprisingly they have changed their name but it is obviously the same people behind it. They have their signature fake plastic flowers and they are trying to pass them off for less than it would cost me to make them in my shop. God only knows how much the florist will get once they take all their commissions out of the price. Are these guys for real? I am amazed that anyone is still dealing with them.

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Comment by Perth Florist - 2 May 2009
Teleflora - How about Teleflora listing fake locations via Google business listings? They have 2 false listings appearing in the Google Ten pack in Perth, for all searches of "flowers" and "florists" Perth.

One address is a park...	CLICK FOR ARCHIVE
and the other doesn't have that many street numbers (at best it is the cathedral!)...	CLICK FOR ARCHIVE

I believe they are probably doing the same thing in all major cities, which makes a mockery of "local business listings". It is not as if the addresses given in Perth, even represent local florists who may use Teleflora as their genuine relay service. Apart from being unethical, I believe it does not comply with Google's requirements for such a listing. If you do a search for "flower delivery Sydney" in Google - 8 listings for Teleflora come up with the same 1300 number, and I wonder if any of those are genuine. If this practice persists, then all "order gatherers" and relay services are likely to do the same, and you'll be lucky to see a genuine local florist in the Google Ten Pack. Teleflora (and others) have done the same in the US and Canada.
Sincerely,
A real Perth florist

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Comment by Bairnsdale Florist - 29 April 2009

Thankyou very much for your efforts. I am encouraging our competitors in Bairnsdale to also stop using Ready Flowers (see below). We rejected a Ready Flowers order just this morning!

"Dear Florists,
We have until recently, being accepting orders from a Online relay company called Ready Flowers.
My partner and I have been concerned about the difference between what Ready Flowers appears to be charging their customer and the value of the order placed with us by Ready Flowers. Ready Flowers appears to be taking more than would one would perceive as a fair commission for providing their relay service.
Recent emails, which you may have also received, indicate that legal action is now being taken against Ready Flowers.
We have commenced to reject all orders from Ready Flowers. We are hopeful that if you also will reject their orders so that Ready Flowers has no outlet in Bairnsdale. I’m sure that if none of us deal with Ready Flowers the orders will still come through one of the more legitimate relay services."

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Comment by Intrigued, Confused & Curious - 27 April 2009
I guess there will always be persons such as "not confused" which are in fact totally confused when it comes to telling right from wrong, answering simple questions and distinguishing fact & hypotheses from conclusions.

As you are obviously some sort of relay florist or a crony of one, you should have the facts at your fingertips to answer my questions, however you refuse.... and why would that be then?

As for your questions to me, you further demonstrate your confusion as to what is ethical and lawful in retail business. The first 5 of your questions are answered by the legal opinion given here - http://readyflowersreview.com/secret-commissions.html which says;
"If you choose to “mark up” the price of the goods and services, that is your business. Effectively you are a reseller and resellers can (and routinely do) set their own prices. There is really no difference between this and the business model adopted by the department store where you bought your Christmas gifts – the store has marked up every item; you are just unaware of (and might be horrified at) the mark-up."

Accordingly, in the realm of honest & ethical retailing, customers do not get to know the answers to the questions you raise and to suggest that they should be made aware is ridiculous, however, they ARE aware and do accept, that mark-ups are a fact of life to cover expenses and profit when purchasing retail goods.

And in specific answer to your question 5, "Shouldn't all florists publish that information on their websites?" My answer is NO, because a REAL florist as per all honest and ethical retail businesses, falls into the above category and is a reseller. The florist comment of 23 January explains to you components of what a REAL florist has to pay to be in business and I don't think customers are at all interested in that, unlike their likely interest in seeking compensation when they find out that they have been ripped off regarding what has been & still is, kept secret.

The matters that are complained of regarding relay florists, raise an entirely different issue simply because customers are NOT aware of what is going on and if they were aware they would not approve, i.e, they are deceived as in the legal opinion at http://readyflowersreview.com/secret-commissions.html

As I understand it, with a Relay Florist Product there are 2 separate entities, the RELAY SERVICE ENTITY and the REAL FLORIST ENTITY, and 2 separate contracts, the Customer / Relay Service 1st contract and the Relay Service / Real Florist 2nd contract.

RELAY SERVICE ENTITY (that takes an order & receives payment)
Much of the mark-up as per a Ready Flowers example (and perhaps Teleflora as you won't explain the commission structure), is wasted in commissions and go to clever clowns who take the order and gorge undisclosed commissions out of the Customer / Relay Service contract. Further, by definition the RELAY SERVICE ENTITY is not a reseller as it does not resell anything, but in fact sells the product then goes about procuring the substitution of a lesser value (thus different) product, via the services of a REAL FLORIST ENTITY.

REAL FLORIST ENTITY
Once the RELAY SERVICE ENTITY (as in Ready Flowers) has gorged itself on collecting commissions, it then contracts with a reseller REAL FLORIST ENTITY (the Relay Service / Real Florist 2nd contract) and the remainder of the customer's money passes on as payment for the customer's order. This second contract falls into the normal retail and acceptable part of purchasing retail goods (as explained above) and as said this REAL FLORIST ENTITY has no duty of disclosure and non disclosure is accepted by customers, further, in the case of Ready Flowers, a florist entity cannot give accurate disclosure because Ready Flowers does not disclose to the florist entity the actual retail price it has charged and in fact the florist entity does not even know who the customer is as customer details are also not revealed, making disclosure impossible and also making it impossible for there to be a contract between the florist entity and the customer (if one were to say there was) as neither know the others identity.

The situation is different regarding the first contract between the customer and the relay service for many reasons in law (see the Statement of Claim at http://www.fair-trading.com.au/reports/rf-soc.html), but put simply if the customer was aware of what was happening, it is logical that the customer would neither accept or approve this sort of conduct which is certainly unethical, and it appears that Gordon Craven is about to test its legality.

Now to answer your remaining question number 6, "If not, what gives you the right to demand this from other businesses?".
I am not demanding anything, I am just writing into this forum asking simple questions which you and your mates consistently fail to disclose therefore a dissection of Teleflora will continue to be made by me.

Come on!!... the REAL florist at comment 23 January can disclose.... why can't you?

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Comment by not confused - 27 April 2009
You're still jumping to conclusions.

Perhaps you'd like to answer some questions.

How much of the price you charge for the flowers you sell from your shop is actual flower value?

How much is your mark-up?

How much of that is profit?

Doesn't your customer have a right to know those facts?

Shouldn't all florists publish that information on their websites?

If not, what gives you the right to demand this from other businesses?

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Comment by Intrigued, Confused & Curious - 26 April 2009
Yes 'not confused', Hampers-Australia.com.au is published by Venturian Media Ltd, a UK registered company that also trades in Australia under ABN 39656830923 and the business names Venturian Media Ltd, Bonza, Credit Card Deals, Oz Shop & Shop Australia. Whether Teleflora has an interest in in the Venturian company or any of these businesses is anyone's guess and unlikely to be disclosed which in turn causes speculation in light of the following facts.

FACT 1.
As the public documents show and Bruce Grey has confirmed, Teleflora has always been the registrant of tele-flora.com.au and Bruce Grey has always been the contact person for the domain.

FACT 2.
For a considerable amount of time before 16 March 2009 tele-flora.com.au pointed to Hampers-Australia.com.au

FACT 3.
When Bruce Grey / Teleflora apparently became aware of this on 16 March the apparent error was immediately corrected.

It is inconceivable to me, that Telelfora was not aware that its tele-flora.com.au domain was not pointing to Teleflora, but in fact pointing to a a whole raft of competition at Hampers-Australia.com.au. My thoughts are, that such a level of absolute gross incompetence is unlikely to have happened and I was seeking the REAL reason for the error.

THEN THERE IS FACT 4.
Teleflora is currently being promoted (as is Ready Flowers) on the Hampers-Australia.com.au website and in Teleflora's case its link goes via Commission Monster.

So from fact 4. it is a fair bet that Teleflora is paying commissions (on successful sales) for the linking service. Well that gets back to my original questions to Bruce on 16 February in relation to the multiple relaying of customers and customer orders and how many of the commissions are extracted from the customer's booty before any flowers actually get pulled out of the fridge.

Is that direct enough question for Bruce & those who are not confused?

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Comment by not confused - 26 April 2009

re: Intrigued, Confused, Curious & Jumping to Conclusions

Don't be daft. It's not hard to work out who is behind the Hampers-Australia.com.au site, paying for the adwords, and (maybe) making commissions, and it's not Teleflora or Bruce Grey.

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Comment by Intrigued, Confused & Curious - 24 April 2009

RE : comment by Bruce Grey, Teleflora - 16 March 2009

Just to interrupt into the Ready Flowers spotlight for a moment....

OK, so Teleflora's second most important domain name (www.Tele-Flora.com.au) was pointing to www.Hampers-Australia.com.au but Teleflora and Bruce Grey weren't aware of that because it was registered as a "rogue domain" and seemingly registered by an unapproved rogue.

On 17 March (a day after Teleflora and Bruce Grey became aware of this "rogue domain"), the domain was redirected to Teleflora. It seems that Bruce had no trouble in tracking the "rogue" down via the "rogue's" domain registrant and tech contact emails of.... yes.... bruce@teleflora.com.au as was in fact published on the whois.au prior to the "awareness" of Bruce on March 16.

So... is Bruce the "unapproved rogue"?

I find all this very intriguing, confusing and curious, I don't doubt the word of Bruce Grey but perhaps Teleflora sees more money in makings commissions from the www.Hampers-Australia.com.au website, than actually selling flowers.

Still no mention of the Teleflora/1300Flowers/Petals commissions Bruce, (questions originally posted by me on 16 February 2009) is that because they are also under the radar... or just under the carpet?

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Comment by Geoff - 7 April 2009
Since my post of 2 weeks ago - again the controversy & trail of betrayal, lies & deceit that belies the operation methods of ReadyFlowers continues to be exposed.

To re-quote from comment posted 6th April ... "Well isn't this just the final insult!!!" ... Sadly I'm absolutely certain this will not be the last insult we florists & now customers of the globe will have to face from ReadyFlowers ...

With Ready Flowers in obvious denial & a perverted belief that ripping people off & the WA state government now is an ethical & accepted practice ... we need the florist crusader to continue his journey & ensure that the RF group RIP ...

I look forward to Gordon's feedback from Troy Buswell & associates on the OTHER scam that RF must have pulled off to get into Technology Park WA ... their tenancy application form would have made interesting reading ... more than a few mistruths would have been inked into that form & that's for sure ...

Keep it up Gordon ... the rest of the industry is certainly talking about you & is 100% behind you ... the industry has had enough of the RF big time now ... and time will prove that ...

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Comment by Florist - 6 April 2009
I just read from your latest news that Ready Flowers operates out of the Perth Technopark.

Well isn't this just the final insult!!!

Ripping off florists, ripping off the public, registered in Hong Kong, all while being incubated by the West Australian government, bloody incredible!!!

It will be interesting to see if the Honourable (Chair Sniffing) Troy Buswell Minister for Commerce will do anything about it.

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Comment by Florist - 2 April 2009
I have just received an email, from the Relay company that I currently deal with, telling me that all relay orders from 1300flowers will now be coming through them. I am now extremely P'd off, not just for my business, but for the consumer/customer also.

I don't want to imagine what commissions are going to be taken out of the amount that the consumer has paid and what pittiance I will receive for my hard work.

This is getting totally out of control.

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SEE PETALS / 1300flowers RELAY FLORIST NEWS HERE

Comment by Florist - 1 April 2009
We have an order sitting on our work board that is to be delivered on the 18th, which we received on the 2nd of march. The order comes to $109.90 on THEIR website, we have the order as $60.20... mind you that is delivery, vase and bouquet of lilys and freesia..... OH MY GOOD the poor customer is getting ripped off $49.70. Gee that's fair.!

We since have rejected all their orders and I have had many a phone fight with them as to how much they rip their customers off and we will not put our name on the orders... WE PUT THEIRS!

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Comment by Florist - 1 April 2009
Hi Gordon,

As a manager and partner of a Florist Shop for the past 16 years, I have done work for Ready Flowers in the past, their orders were always way under value, for me to execute the order that they had illustrated to their customer. I would have to send the flowers out at wholesale prices without making anything for my time or even a profit!! I phoned them quite irritated of the monetary value I was receiving. They would always increase the value of the order to what I required but it was always a battle to get the increase in monetary value. In the end I would not accept any orders from Ready Flowers because I felt the consumer was being ripped off!!. In fact I found out from a customer of Ready Flowers that they had paid substantially more than I received to create the order. Their customer rang me directly, as I always put my florist sticker and business card with every order that leave my shop. The customer was upset that the flowers weren't what they had pictured from the webpage, while the customer was on the phone I went to the website to check and see what the customer had paid. I was horrified to find that this customer had paid $130.00 and I received about $55.00 - $65.00 to create the same order! I'm not really sure of the correct amounts but it was a clear rip off!!! I was really upset with Ready Flowers. I apologised to their customer and explained what I had received from Ready Flowers. I said to them that they would have been better off contacting me directly and told them I would send out an apology bouquet to the recipient. They were really happy with my response but here again I was left to hold up my own business's reputation before Ready Flowers destroyed all my hard work.

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Comment by Gail Marshall - 1 April 2009
As the president of the Tasmanian Florists' Association and a florist owner/manager who has worked in both Victoria and Tasmania for many years I have seen and worked with both relay and web florist services.

Anyone that can use a computer can set up a web florist service and it is a detriment to the florist industry that we allow these rogue traders to flourish. The problem is that we are the problem. The web florists rely on real florists to execute the orders for the price they dictate. If we stopped doing this, they would cease to exist- on a professional level at least.

Why are florists so divided and belligerent within our own industry? We would be stronger if we ALL stood together to stop non-florists eroding our hard earned profit margins. This issue was discussed at our last meeting and T.F.A. members do not associate themselves with Ready Flowers.

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Comment by Florist - 31 March 2009

Gordon ... we had been receiving orders from ReadyFlowers for awhile but because of the value offered we rejected most of them and upon becoming aware of the information you provided now reject all orders without regard to value ... good luck with your quest to rid our industry of such an unscrupulous practice ...

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Comment by Adrian Gooderson - 31 March 2009
I Did a google search and found out that Ready Flowers is actually a Hong Kong based company now.

Do a search for Ready Flowers on the Hong Kong Company Website. http://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/ and see all the information for yourself.

This is obviously why they can call themselves Ready Flowers Ltd.

• Why does an Australian Company need an office in Hong Kong ?

• Who works there when their call center is in Australia ?

• Aren't most of their customers in Australia?

Can anyone help?

From a
Concerned online flower buyer

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Comment - 30 March 2009
Just to let you know the flowers used in all their website images are fake or silk flowers they do this because the flowers look fresh and full.

To prove it look at their video they made advertising the company which was taken on valentines day when they needed that many staff and you will see on the desks the flowers used on the website.

They have about 3 people answering the phones now.

I got fired when I told a customer it was cheaper to buy them direct from a florist.

Thanks and good work on the website.

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Comment by Duncan - 26 March 2009

I see that Rough & Ready Flowers has been squealing loudly about loosing customers because of this website. If customers have been diverted from dealing with RRF they might br lucky enough to have actually found a real florist to fulfill their orders. This can only be really good news for customers because, from RRF's own squealing documents, if a customer spends $90 with RRF only $50 goes to the executing florist, so by avoiding the RRF rip-off the customer can gain an extra 40 dollars worth of flowers.

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Comment by Karen Dennis - 25 March 2009
Well, G'day ......Time to have a few words. I've been watching this ever since I received an email containing the facts. (thankyou Gordon Craven) After reading that and absorbing it, Man I was ticked!!!

I'm over the "angry" stage, and the feeling "how stupid was I"......Ive been a florist in this industry ALL MY LIFE! Still owning my own business for thirty years now, won many, many awards Australia wide, been an active member of many different relay organisations, (and consider there only to be one of any real substance owned by The members for the members....and the original!.....ie Interflora) ......to find this!!!!!

One thing about our beautiful, wonderful, mystical industry, there's always some a-hole "ready "to rip off those of us, who have worked our butts off, year after year, DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND OUR INDUSTRY, building up solid businesses using hearts and soul, blood sweat and tears, together with sleepless weekends of bums up and heads down as we plough thru the orders for the valentines and mothers days.......Getting by from week to week, and trying anything and everything to make an honest buck, knowing the rents got to be paid, and the kids to feed. . ..........to have have the likes of "Dr flexi and his haggard team", (incorporating now, an invisible rabbit, (name withheld)ey......) to come in -like Grim Reapers.........and start beheading.......Frankly, its about time WE as florists stood up to this grimey slimey reaper- stared him right in the eye and hit him with a good old florist class action..........right between the eyes!!! So I ask these questions

How many florists out there have been executing these orders?.

On average (depending on whether u were quick enough to get the order)..did u execute on a daily basis?

How many were aware of what was really happening until they've read the email from Gordon Craven?

How many now..( that THIS HAS BEEN been exposed for what IT is ) are going to continue being extorted?

How many thought when executing the orders..."don't they send a lot of small orders?.......and thought" no profit in this?..
.....How many feel really pissed off about this? Knowing now that they've added extra to MANY ORDERS AS THEY JUST LOOKED SPARSE?.... in order not to wreck their own good business name?...................? yep I'm sure there are many of us, and maybe, you are too embarrassed to come out of the woodwork, or are sitting there thinking......"well...........it will go away??????"

THIS IS ONLY GOING TO CONTINUE (if we allow it!).., as there will always be a naive percentage, either unaware or new comers to the industry who aren't aware of what's really happening here who will, execute the orders, for the pittance in return....and probably like many of us, totally unaware of what he's actually been doing.!!

How many of you have approached the bank and said "stop payment on the monthly 55 dollar fees?..........(for membership).....because I'm sure that they'll still be taking that while they can get it too....

... in the meantime we shut this down, who's gunna stop him starting under other bogus names,?.......whose gunna stop him ripping off the florists and consumers and raping the floral industry again?........we must be VIGILANT!!

May I be so bold to suggest that as long as his sagging butt is facing the ground, that he have his nose so badly rubbed in his erred ways that he will never play touch typist again?..............how about it folks?......time to get those grey cells working over time, BACK UP THIS ONE BRAVE BLOKE MR GORDON CRAVEN show him some gratitude for what he's begun, if we keep the ball rolling, we will win, not only for our industry, but our self respect and save the industry from the scourge of thievery.......... ..(and who knows who else well eradicate in the process as well.....cos this mob aren't the only ones are they? ..........CHECK OUT THE YELLOW PAGES, THERE S HEAPS ADVERTISING ALL OVER, NO SHOPS THOUGH.. just phone numbers.... NO FLORISTS ARE THEY?.......just the same as the turkey were talking about.....we need to bring floristry back to us the florists, where the consumers get the personal service, and the chat. Where consumers can know what they'll get for the dollars spent, that we are for real were not somewhere out in cyber space...........we are the real deal and the living proof .......

It's time to beat the big bad demon, for without "us" (the "FLORIST WITH THE SHOP FRONT) he has NOTHING!!!!!!!!, zilch, not a brass razoo........there has to be a list of membership somewhere?..........who knows who?......start talking to other florists, start finding out.......let's have meetings, talk to other florists in the markets, travellers, wholesalers, and the sundries suppliers, go see your opposition, start speaking to others......... lets discuss tactics....let's do something.............. lets do something POSITIVE!!!!! about this..

It's okay saying yeah, yeah....its time for action now!!!!! bloody well get behind Gordon Craven, raise those shears, strip those stems and lets eradicate the disease!.........Seems to me we all seem so complacent about this.............are we going to sit here at the computer and say? GEE WHAT CAN WE DO??"..TIME TO GET OUR HEADS TOGETHER ON THIS.........WITHOUT US (the decent, hardworking honest reliable, proud, florist, that unfortunately has been yet again sucked in by a money hungry thief with a very clever idea).........."READY- RIP -OFF" HAS NO BUSINESS!!!! .........and id like to see him executing his own orders, (Australia wide AND WORLD WIDE) considering he probably doesn't know the difference between a gerbera and a gladioli! LETS DO THIS!!!!! I MEAN LET'S REALLY DO THIS, COLLECTIVELY WE HAVE POWER..DO YOU REALISE THAT?>.....MORE POWER THAN AN INVISIBLE RABBIT AND A SCARED LITTLE THIEF who portray themselves in videos as well adjusted trustworthy business people...... ha!!!.......... Lets see how well adjusted they can really be with Australia's florists and their voices.. they wanna be actors? lets put em on tv.......... media's looking good isn't it?..... see how well they can really act!!

Karen Dennis, Bees Delight Florist 03 95477043

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Comment by Geoff - 23 March 2009
Having been involved in the florist industry for 15 odd years now, I have kept a close eye on the development of this whole matter encompassing & hopefully engulfing ReadyFlowers ...

One of the latest enlightening comments sent in by Helen, who is obviously a savvy florist, covers a lot of very pertinent points that "who the hell is (name withheld)" pathetically attempted to answer.

Before I go on, I would be absolutely certain that "who the hell is (name withheld)" & ReadyFlowers have absolutely no experience in the actual day to day running of a florist shop & have never ever created a floral arrangement or been at the coal face during a Valentines Day / Mothers Day period when all us florists work 36 - 48 hours or more straight to get the flowers out for all these 100 000 plus customers RF so pathetically brag about.

"Who the hell is (name withheld)" states & proves beyond doubt quite clearly below in his response to Helen that what "the customer sees & orders is "CERTAINLY NOT WHAT WE GET" ... so how the heck can they get that!!!

The way things are going & not soon enough from my point of view, it won't be much longer from what I hear all day every day in the florist industry ... a class action is only around the corner to back up this florist crusader Gordon Craven ...

Great comment Duncan 23rd March ... maybe soon it reads "Rough & Ready Flowers RIP" ...

Keep it up Gordon Craven - your a credit to the industry and thank god - thanks to "who the hell is (name withheld)" & good old RF I know you're unemployed - so at least you can hopefully find the time to finish this job off ;-))

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Comment by Duncan - 23 March 2009

This Ready Flowers mob look like they need a name change, perhaps I could suggest "Rough & Ready Flowers", I'm sure the .com and .com.au domains would be available.

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Comment by Helen - 21 March 2009

MY REPLY TO MASS EMAIL CAMPAIGN BY READY FLOWERS DATED 20 Feb 2009
I am not and never have been a part of your business but I had a quick read and on page 4 you have a fees chart and I can tell you that the relay company I have dealt with for the past 10 years doesn't take those sort of commisions, and there's another company I deal with who don't take commissions at all. I think you'll find the thing that pisses florists off is the fact that you charge the customer $90 and give a $50 order to the florist so you've made a $40 profit and the florist made $35 well not quite what about the cost of sundries, so lets call that $25. (and is that including or excluding the courier fees)

You know what if I don't make the most out of an order I just don't do it. Yes I would like the cost of flowers to come down but they won't because of all the associated costs that go with it. I am a professional florist won awards the whole 9 yards and my time is very valuable and if you want my service you will pay for it. I don't do anything for nothing and neither should any other florist. Most people haven't a clue about a florists job or the creativity actually needed to be any good in this business. Oh and just so you know I also have an associate diploma in Accounting and a couple of other qualifications, and I can see by this letter you've sent out that you are getting the lions share for doing bugger all, in comparison to the ones who actually do the work.

.....and who the hell is Harvey Rough?

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RESPONSE TO HELEN FROM "Harvey Rough - Business Director" OF READY FLOWERS :
Thanks Helen,
I appreciate your comments.
There are several observations that add depth to what you are saying.

1.	Nothing beats picking up a nice bunch of flowers and hand delivering them. I do it all the time and I love the feeling I give and I love the feeling I get. I buy my flowers from St.Annes here in Perth or from Herdsman Growers Mart, they are beautiful and fresh and last a good 7 days.
2.	As for professional flowers ... I love them ... table centre-pieces, front-entrance arrangements, weddings etc etc etc ... beautiful! Premium product, premium price, fantastic professional satisfaction
3.	Local flowers and premium arranagments are clearly not our market. Our business only makes sense when people are sending flowers to another town or city or country. Of course we pick up busy customers who don't have time between careers, kids, sports, families etc. in the local area ... But thats not our real market.
4.	As an accounting graduate you will appreciate that:
	i)	An order we bring to you, costs you nothing. Its extra revenue at no extra marketing cost. So it spreads your overheads and adds to your gross profit
	ii)	Our $40 dollars out of the $90 is largely made up of google advertising costs ... more than 60% of that $40 goes in pay-per-click and search engine optimisation charges with Yahoo and Google ... our technology and call-centre costs are huge.

We will never interfere with your walk-in business ... We have no intention of playing in the premium arrangement space ... But every order we offer you ... makes you more money if you have the capacity to fullfill the order. And thats exactly why we give you the choice to accept or reject each offer. It doesn't have to be a fixed rule ... one day you may, the next day you may not have the capacity ... thats Ok, there's a Florist just down the road who will.
Thank you for your response ... I would like to think we can do business in the future ... but I do want to stress that we are good quality people, with mortages, families and community interests in drug rehab programs, youth rehab and youth training. We're not the monsters that Gordon makes us out to be.
(Harvey Rough - Business Director of Ready Flowers).

Comment Anonymous Florist - 21 March 2009
"We had already been offered some orders from RF in the past that we thought were just rip offs for the customer. I rang them about one order in particular and they told me that the photos were silk flowers - so they looked so much bigger and fuller than the real thing. And the amount of money allocated to us to execute them was ridiculous. We are not members of RF even though they tried for years to get us to join."

Publish your comment: Not specifically authorised as it has been extracted from correspondence from a third party but considering the importance of the silk flowers statement it has been published.
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Comment by unemployed - 20 March 2009
The news artical [Western Australia Business News] says they employ 30 hahaha.

They employ about 12. and they are cutting jobs every month

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Comment by Caroline Marshall-Foster - 17 March 2009
As Managing Editor of the only independent trade magazine in the UK - Florist & Wholesale Buyer - I must congratulate Gordon on his efforts and hope that this brings positive results.

Internet operators like this are now setting up all over the world and as a result many thousands and thousands of consumers are getting very poor value for money. In the UK 33% is the norm for handling an order, other operators far more.

Worse still, in my opinion, is the fact that on-line directories like Yell, Google etc encourage and assist the deceit by allowing them to advertise, often using bogus addresses, despite regular evidence that these companies are, at best, immoral, at worst illegal.

Given this is an international issue I shall watch this with great interest and am happy to offer my support if I can help in any way.

In the meantime I would urge consumers to use the Internet to find real bricks and mortar shops with websites. Not only will your budget go a lot further but it is the most effective way to stop greedy middlemen continuing to trade.
Caroline [

Florist & Wholesale Buyer ]

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Comment by Ineke Persoon - 16 March 2009
This is a great development, customers and florists have been ripped off by these Internet traders. I've had problems before, ring them and complain and they tell you it's a corporate client, they get special rates? Customers pay a great deal of money to get something nice and it can make us -the florist- look bad when the customer gets to see the end result. Like a 25 dollar bunch they've paid 55 dollars for. Bad for our industry. So you've got my full support to stop this from happening.

Regards,
Ineke Persoon - Kempsey.

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Comment by Bruce Grey, Teleflora Head Office - 16 March 2009
Intrigued/Confused - Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have looked at the website and have spoken to the Marketing Department as to what and how this has occurred. Without going back into the past I have arranged for this website to be removed.

TeleFlora has had many problems with various companies promoting rogue domain names and whilst this is registered to TeleFlora via Bruce Grey I would say that this has slipped under the radar as this was not approved. TeleFlora certainly would not have approved of a website advertising its competition.

Thank you intrigued/confused and Paul Rewell from efloristsrus.com.au for bringing this to my attention personally.

Regards,
Bruce Grey

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Comment by ~~Intrigued~~ Confused - 15 March 2009

RE : comment by Bruce Grey, Teleflora - 13 February 2009
Well my first post in this forum was on 16 February [here] where I made inquiries from Bruce Grey of Teleflora regarding further information on commissions. 2 months has since lapsed and it appears Bruce has not responded to my inquiries.... I can't find it anyhow.

So now I am also confused for the following reasons.

According to Whois AU, the domain www.TeleFlora.com.au is registered to Bruce Grey of Teleflora and it leads to the Teleflora website.

The domain www.Tele-Flora.com.au is also registered to Bruce Grey of Teleflora, however it leads to a order gatherer website called Hampers Australia promoting a whole load of relay outfits with one of those outfits being Ready Flowers saying the usual Ready Flowers hype which includes, "ordering flowers online has never been this simple! Buy Now from Ready Flowers".

Now, Bruce Grey has published on this forum that florists should REJECT READY FLOWERS ORDERS.

Huh... on the Tele-Flora.com.au website he promotes Ready Flowers apparently for a commission, while on this forum he tells us florists not to deal with Ready Flowers.

Come on Bruce.... WHAT GIVES ?

btw. good on you Gordon I reckon your court case should reveal heaps, please please please publish the defence.

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Comment by EFlowersAlive - 13 March 2009 [www.eflora.net.au]
Being a Real Live Independent Florist for 40 years and a very loyal member of a well known relay, we realised years ago of these poaching tactics and refused to loose our reputation in our area by executing these orders. All relays have also lost their reputation as being a perfect organisation for what the florists set them up to be in supporting the florist. The first order taken from the general public by these organisation has caused a crippling effect on the whole flower industry. They were warned 15 years back that it would become uncontronlable and this website proves our warning. Congratulations and may florists not be so naive to accept these orders to the detriment of their florist reputation. For a totally honest, open and transparent way of being a florist to your most precious customer and the florist industry please check out www.eflora.net.au and register as a Real Live Florist. You will not be compelled to join us but you will be pleasantly surprised to see our efforts and compassion for the Independent Florist. For sure your customer is your most important asset, you need them, they don't need you. Thank them for your success.

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Comment - 3 March 2009
I have 1 order to do for Ready Flowers. When I saw the picture of what was to be sent, I emailed them and DEMANDED MORE MONEY OR I WOULDN'T DO IT. They did give me an xtra $10.

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Comment by Bloomin Krackers UK - 1 March 2009
After reading all comments regarding relay agencies we are feeling very honoured to be a member of Direct2florist. We have been with this system almost from the begining & have seen the growth from a few in the UK to several worldwide countries. My main comment is that we are in control of what we send from our shop - something we take great pride in. The shop will have been trading for 25 years in April this year something we are also proud of. This system has taken us a step further in taking our products to many other people across many countries not just something from a book that everybody has to work from & stock certain flowers that you know will not sell in your area & we get full money to be able to provide something that looks goods with plenty of content. [Bloomin Krackers Direct2Florist Ordering System]

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Comment - 28 February 2009

Check out www.FloristNews.co.uk there are pages of complaints from real florists who have been ripped off by relay companies.

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Comment by Neville Park, Direct2florist - 27 February 2009
In some ways it is pleasing to note that Direct2florist.com is not mentioned in your study. On the other hand it is perhaps wise to provide an outline of Direct2florist simply because it is visibly an online flower sending service and would not want to be placed in the category of 'one of the above' due to a lack of information.

Direct2florist.com is a global site based in the United Kingdom. There are member florists in UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Spain, Hong Kong, Malta, Ireland, Cyprus and other countries as the site develops.

Member florists have their own 'mini website' within Direct2florist. Each site is individually customized by the florist and they have complete control over images, prices, delivery areas etc. The software makes it very easy for florists to change things in minutes.

It is all set up to be very transparent. Nothing is hidden from florist or consumer. The flower prices are clearly displayed as is the Direct2florist transmission fee. There is no element of commission taken from the flower value by Direct2florist.

When a customer places an order online they can see the florists price for the flowers. The customer knows how much the florist is receiving. The florist charges the customers credit card so they know exactly how much the customer has paid for the flowers.

Although the site displays 'stock' images as a default, florists are encouraged to replace these with their own images. That is what makes Direct2florist unique. The customer should be ordering something that the florist can do, wants to do, at a price that both customer and florist are happy with. Long term this should help reduce the substitution issue.

Florists choose their own delivery areas and will only be visible online for those areas. There are no additional charges per area selected. There is no question of someone 'pretending' to have a shop hundreds of miles away.

Customers choose the florist based on the shops pictures, description and prices. They can see it is a real florist and can read the feedback provided by previous customers. Direct2florist does not choose the executing florist, the customer does. The only time an order is redirected is if the nominated florist rejects an order, e.g. content not being available or it is outside their delivery area. In this case the customer will be aware of the change.

The executing florist also receives contact information for the sending customer, i.e. name, phone, email. Very few services go this far. They do not want to be giving away 'their' customers details. At Direct2florist we believe that it is the executing florists customer. Yes, the florist could then target the sender directly for future orders but quite frankly, there would be little to gain by that. It would only remove the small transmission fee and not provide any more value to the florist. It would also increase the florists time involved in processing the order and if it's a phone call, the spelling errors start to appear causing all sorts of problems. In a lot of ways, Direct2florist is designed to be a very fair alternative.

Direct2florist is an ongoing project with an increasing amount of time involved in developing the software. It has not happened overnight and is continually evolving based on feedback from members. That is one of the goals, to develop a site that suits the customer and the florist, not just the developer.

Florists agree to be within Direct2florist. We do not add florists artificially in order to increase the member numbers. That would not work. The florist needs to be actively involved in using the site.

Direct2florist does not dictate content or prices to the members. They are free to display their own work just as they would on their own website. The process of changing images and prices is very easy, much easier than updating a normal website. It can be done in minutes,can be done as often as you like, at any time of the day and there are no charges for doing it.

Direct2florist is designed to be an easy way for florists to have an online presence at very little cost and to receive orders at full value. For florists with a website and no shopping cart or online ordering it provides this option very quickly. Florists can use their Direct2florist site as a back end shopping cart from their own website. Just a simple link achieves this.

For florists with a full ecommerce website, it provides an additional site that will be optimized worldwide so not intended to replace their own website, just give them an extra means of receiving orders at the same full value. Direct2florist shouldn't be seen as competition for your own website. If your own site is set up correctly, you should be appearing for your home town. Put it this way. If a customer somewhere in the world doesn't see your website in a search, what will they be given as an alternative. Your Direct2florist site, or an online operator who will extract xxx commission from the order before phoning you.

Florists pay a nominal membership fee to be within Direct2florist. This fee is little more than a cup of coffee each week and probably a lot less than hosting your own website. Yes, the costs of developing the site and optimizing it worldwide along with monitoring members and orders is substantial, but no reason to try and recoup the cost in a hurry by extracting large commissions from orders. The costs will be recovered in time, but that will be related to the volume of orders sent to members. Direct2florist will not profit at the expense of members. They will grow together.

There is real time support for members and I provide this in Australia as do others in other countries. I know the flower trade having spent 30 years on the UK high street. I understand the issues. I also moderate the UK's most active florist forum www.floristnews.co.uk. This is where all of the issues are discussed by florists. I see it and read about it every day.

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Comment - 26 February 2009
In regard to ready flowers opening bogus online florist.

We have a florist on the NSW mid north coast and until very recently if you google searched florist Port Macquarie your search revealed florists located in the area and shown on the google map. Just recently this has changed and just one florist comes up. This florist does not exist no address is given only a 1800 phone number. I noticed this is the case if you search florist in other towns. I would be interested to know if this is ready flowers or if not Who?

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Comment - 19 February 2009
It is with great interest that this situation has come to a head. Being an established florist shop for over thirty years, its amazing that after many years of complaining someone in authority is taking this seriously. Ready flowers is the tip of the iceberg. If enough questions and research is done, companies like ( i'd rather not say at the moment) which only have a web presence and other companies who do have a retail presence have done their home work and its far more financially rewarding to put all your efforts in stopping buyers getting to the florist and take a neat 26% upwards to (well the sky the limit it seems) profit without little outlay. Some of the big players might disagree as they would spend thousands- hundred of thousands on promoting their products and web space, but again I say little outlay for maximum gain. They're not florists, they're leeches -when you're on a good thing stick to it. . If they disagree then i'll give in and call them flower sellers. None so far have shown any indication or commitment to be given the slightest consideration in being called florists. The jargon at the moment "on-line florists" what a load of bull dust. You're a florist or you're not!

We have a nation of florists providing a unique service that is being slowly and painfully destroyed. WE HAVE SUPPLIERS WHO WILL GLADLY SUPPLY NON FLORIST SHOPS AND AT MUCH BETTER PRICES, WE HAVE SUPERMARKETS WHO WILL SELL AT A LOSS IN ORDER TO CAPTURE OUR MARKET (THEY HAVEN'T REALISED "YET" THAT'S NOT OUR MARKET.) WE HAVE EASYFLOWERS WHO WILL HAVE YOU COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER ON PRICE SO AS TO GET THE LOWEST PRICE AND HIGHEST COMMISSION, YOU HAVE ROSES ONLY WHO WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT THE PRODUCT WILL BE AND EXACTLY WHAT THEY WILL PAY YOU, YOU HAVE RETAIL OUTLETS (FLORISTS) WHOSE MAIN BUSINESS IS WEB SALES - no flowers 26% commission, no headaches. I could continue but you get the idea. The reality is there are two relay organizations in this country, some say three but its two. They are member owned by florists, yes there is a commission but its shared by the florists and yes there are boards and directors but they work for us, and if enough florists took an active part a lot more would be done. We have a web presence and yes there is commission - but it all comes back to us its members, so get active say no to all other web sales by would be's. A lot of real florists have web pages and good on you, but if your web page is solely to capture the buyer and make easy money, its about time a stop was put to this. The internet, well uncontrollable I agree, but stop people calling themselves florists or claiming they are doing the order or taking all the accolades ( for milking us dry). They should be made to say who they are, where they are and what active part are they doing in fulfilling the order (jack squat). As a friend of mine in the industry recently said. Once upon a time 80% of my work that left the shop was our own work, now 70% is someone else's relay order and 30% ours. We do do the hard yards to insure customers are happy both recipient and sender, but who's laughing all the way to the bank? I'm not asking for control or ban but just the recognition and reward that should come from such a fascinating "INDUSTRY". FLORIST'S SHOULD RULE NOT BE RULED.

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Comment by Bob Davis - 18 February 2009
I have noticed that in the last couple of days Ready Flowers have commenced publishing volumes of "Recent Testimonials". The wording of these testimonials make it fairly obvious that they have been recently solicited by Ready Flowers from previous customers. Funny, there is nothing I can find in the testimonials that mentions anything about commissions charged by Ready Flowers. It appears that Ready Flowers must have forgot to seek a response about that little matter.

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Comment by Bob Rushton, Leeds UK - 16 February 2009
Crikey! How difficult is it for a relay service to display the amount of fee or commission charged for the service provided? This would level the playing field, but oh no no no, it seems Ready Flowers is prepared to go to court to debate the matter and Bruce Grey of Teleflora.com.au (and for 1300Flowers.com.au) explains some of the situation but nothing about commissions.

Come on you lot.... get real!!!

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Comment by Intrigued - 16 February 2009

RE : comment by Bruce Grey, Teleflora - 13 February 2009
What an enlightening article this is. Could Bruce Grey of Teleflora or anyone, please explain the following 2 scenarios:

1. If an order is made with 1300Flowers who apparently (from what is reported in the comments section) relays the order to Teleflora or Petals who execute the order via their respective distribution networks, does 1300Flowers and the distribution network (Teleflora or Petals), take a commission each i.e, 2 commissions or is there just 1 commission split between the parties? and how much is that total commission?

2. If a flower purchaser arrives at 1300Flowers via one of the affiliate banners on someones website, that are available for use at https://www.clixgalore.co.in/AffSelectProgram.aspx?AdvProgID=10085 which offer between 8% and 16% per sale, what happens then? does it end up being yet another commission out of the booty, possibly 3 commissions?

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Comment by Bruce Grey, Teleflora Head Office - 13 February 2009
I have been watching this article with great interest and firstly I would like to thank ~~Peter Caven~~ Gordon Craven on a great job. We have been watching the movements of readyflowers.com.au since they started to advertise heavily on the internet.

Currently with being involved in Australia and New Zealand we have been monitoring the levels of commissions charged by readyflowers.com.au and advising our Teleflora Florists in both countries how best to handle these orders.

This advise is to reject the order.

I will explain Teleflora and Teleflora.com.au., Teleflora is a relay florist network that has been established for 50 years within Australia. We are a florist member owned organisation with a Board of Directors, made up of florists, in the following states - QLD,WA,NSW and VIC and currently have a vacancy in SA for any interested Teleflora Members. I will say that TELEFLORA and its BOARD of DIRECTORS do not condone the action of readyflowers.com.au and support this article with full respect. It should also be noted that Teleflora as a member based organisation our profits are used to increase the business of Teleflora members and to foster the growth of orders to benefit our members who are florists.

Sean the florist ? with regards to the relationship between Teleflora and 1300flowers.com.au, I will explain the situation for you. Teleflora and 1300flowers.com.au have agreed prices which we believe are fair for the florist. Please remember that we are a florist based and are owned by our florist members. I will explain how our prices are achieved. We select members and florists within the Teleflora network who price the items for Teleflora, this is done in each state and not just by one member in each state so therefore we achieve a fair price to ALL Teleflora Members.

It would be illegal for Teleflora to tell any person what they should sell a product for, we can only advise that this is the price to send an order via the Teleflora Network and let our member florist explain the Teleflora system and guarantee. We can suggest a RRP but that is it.

Once again the Board of Teleflora and the Management would like to thank www.fair-trading.com.au for a great article and exposing what many in the industry through-out Australia and New Zealand have spoken about. As I have explained earlier, Teleflora advised those florists who have enquired to us that they should reject these orders as it will only lose them money.

Sean the florist ? I am available at anytime to discuss this matter with you further and may be contacted on 1800.335.040.

My advice to all online shoppers and florists is to stick to the brands that you know.

As you can see Teleflora has been around since before the internet was even created and we thank our florists members for their ongoing support.

Kindest Regards
Bruce Grey

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Publisher's Update 13 February 2009

COMPLAIN TO THE ACCC, I believe they will act if enough complaints are made ACCC COMPLAINT PAGE (WITH ONLINE FORM)

Signed : Gordon Craven

Comment by Sean the Florist - 12 February 2009
I've just found out that the new mob 1300flowers.com.au are really no better than the other internet floral cowboys such as readyflowers.com.au, easyflowers.com.au, etc. They're using Pat Rafter to try to buy credibility, but the reality is that they operate just like most of the other clowns ripping off customers and real florists. Apparently 1300flowers.com.au get the orders, take their commission and then pass the orders on to the people who run teleflora.com.au who take a further chunk of commission out before they send the order to a florist to make and deliver. Once again, we the florists get ripped off and so does the customer.

Pat Rafter seems like a nice bloke, but I bet he didn't know exactly who he was getting into bed with when he agreed to be the spokesman for 1300flowers.com.au, who are just as bad as the rest of them.

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Comment by John Wallace - 12 February 2009
After reading through the published comments I would like to say that all the relay florists and this includes the likes of interflora rake a big hand full of the order value from us florists.

One of the comments " why don't florists have there own web sites " that is exactly what we have done and we do all the work....take photos of our work and put our own work on the site. The customer sees exactly what the flowers will look like and all it costs them is a phone call, no commission, no middle man to rake off the florists earned profit. And our own web site works.

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Comment by Peter Churchill - 12 February 2009
It's about time someone started to pull the plug on this stealing of orders to genuine florists across Australia by using florists names in their area with channelling of orders meant for the genuine florist to their commission taking schemes.

The website "http://www.floristdetective.com/" is excellent for comsumers to weed out the phony relay companies ruining the florist industry.

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Comment - 11 February 2009
Have you looked at eg., Easy Flowers 6 Roses in a Glass Vase $83.00 AUD [HERE], we get paid $33.00. We have to pay a monthly fee to them as well as them taking their big cut from the original order.

1300 Flowers are a relayer using a second relayer! (Petals) this before it actually reaches the florist and we are expected to do the order and deliver it and on many occasions we don't even cover our costs! PETALS promised that would match orders but this month I'm paying them $770.00! and this has been consistent through the year. Someone needs to investigate how ALL these RELAYER ARE ROBBING THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS THE SMALL STRUGGLING FLORISTS.

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Comment - 5 February 2009
Here's an update on Ready Flowers' new business tactics. Ready Flowers have now deliberately removed all costing figures from their supplying orders to florists. Florists now no longer know what the order value is, how much of the "amount to charge us for delivery" is, or any other information they used to supply. Ready Flowers is now selling their floral orders to the florist as a single total amount without reference to any other costing details. It is now up to the florist to try and work out those details or otherwise be tempted by the one lump sum amount shown. They are also attempting to remove the immediate payout system and introduce a one off monthly payout at the end of the month (currently delayed) so as a florist, you are now no longer aware of how much you have to pay Ready Flowers to give away your flowers to people.

Wouldn't it be nice if the people behind the Kerri-anne franchise could get behind the florists and expose the Ready Flowers system she recognised as an easy money maker at florists labour exploitation.

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Publisher's Update
3 February 2009

ON KERRI-ANNE KENNERLEY DESIGNER FLOWERS.................

Comment by Jannelle - 29 January 2009
It appears that Ready Flowers may not be attempting to enter the USA market.

I wonder if that's because the USA Federal Trade Commission appears to take more of an interest in this sort of scam than Australian government authorities.

"Some unscrupulous telemarketing firms are posing as local florists, charging you higher fees and taking business away from legitimate florists in your town....
"The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad."

Source : USA Federal Trade Commission (FTC) on Petal Pushers

Here is Ready Flowers, Australian Enquiry Lines:
Adelaide:   +61 8 8111 4591
Brisbane:   +61 7 3123 5925
Canberra:   +61 2 6102 4635
Melbourne: +61 3 9001 5725
Newcastle: +61 2 4013 4000
Perth:      +61 8 9220 9061
Sydney:     +61 2 8282 5714
Wollongong: +61 2 4203 2001
http://www.readyflowers.com.au/contact-us/

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Comment - 24 January 2009
Well done for exposing them and now hand this to the media and see what they can do. I am a florist and have been approached by this and other type companies to do their orders I have their web site on my computer and just tell them I can't do the order for their price knowing full well how much they are selling the item for. Refusing the order usually results in the client ringing direct to find out that I am not shut as they have been told by Ready flowers but also when I quote my price they are amazed to find out that I am much cheaper and more amazed to find out that the $90+ order was relayed to me for $15.50 plus delivery. One other occasion I arrived at work to find a phone message from one of my clients all excited about the arrival of her niece "I want to order something big and beautiful $150 to go to the hospital ring me" so I did to find out that she was so excited that she went online and placed the order. This did not worry me as I am the only florist in the area and I would get the order anyway. It came through for $77.50 inc delivery. Knowing my client I rang her to explain that what she ordered was only small in comparison to all the other family members. She was amazed at the amount of fees taken out told me to do the $150 order and that she would cancel the relay order. When she contacted them she was told that there was a 50% cancellation fee. Guess they get their commission anyway they can!!!
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Comment by Dale - 24 January 2009
Well ... anonymous florists comments on 23 January says everything that needs be said & again outlines & confirms Gordon Cravens analysis & subsequent exposure of this "group of thieves" ...

Having said that, anonymous florists inference that the RF group are "Florists best Friends" certainly is not the case anymore - florists have / are turning on this group of scammers in their droves & as more & more florists are finding out what RF is ACTUALLY doing to the industry & what the customer is ACTUALLY paying RF - florists level of disdain is growing daily.

I note that 2 legit & reputable relay groups - www.ausfloristdirect.com & www.eFloristsRus.com.au have uploaded warnings & direct links on the home pages of their websites direct to this report. WELL DONE to them ... we can only assume that plenty of customers will see this in advance & avoid the RF group - it all helps.

Also, I can speak 1st hand of this rapidly growing level of disdain toward RF because everyday we go to the markets more & more florists are "talking" about RF group & their immoral / downright theft of the industry as a whole ... from both sides ... firstly the customer then obviously us - the florists.

If RF were so confident & believed that there exorbitant fees were justified - why don't they just publish them on their website so the customers know in advance they were about to be ripped ... then ALSO outline in the order email to florists all the ACTUAL commissions they've already creamed "off the top" of the original order so we all just know in advance & in black & white that we've been scammed!!!!!!

But ... somehow I don't think this will happen ...

What we ALL need to do is refer this website to everyone in the industry we know & ALL vent our disdain for the RF group of thieves ... then eventually they will just fold up & go away ...

Lastly, the quickest, easiest & most effective way to have the RF group ejected from the florist industry is for ALL florists to just REJECT their orders ... coz if they cant get florists to process their orders, maybe as JENNY said below on the 16th January - "Perhaps the online relay people send the orders to local paper boys who go and get some Coles supermarket flowers for delivery." ...then RF would have to do this coz its obvious they have absolutely NO ACTUAL experience in the working world of floristry ...

RF belong in places like Nigeria with the rest of the word's online scammers ... RF would be right at home there.

So come on florists - WE can't just sit around whinging that we're being scammed - WE have to get off our butts & finish off RF and it can be done very easily as I said above - just REJECT their orders ... problem solved very very quickly ...

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Comment by HR - 24 January 2009
Wow! I can believe this is such a good argument over flowers! Gordon Craven's "absolute bullshit" reply was funny to say the least.

So yes, fear the Craven wrath! Now the posting by the florist (in business) on 23 January 2009 was disheartening actually. Pretty sad!

How difficult would it be for these actual florists to develop a website show casing your actual arrangements and provide a means for electronic payment? I personally prefer PayPal and will often times choose a company over another based on which one allows me to use PayPal instead of my credit card. Also, PayPal has a "way" whereby one can create a one time/use CC number to use for that very same transaction and not get used ever again. I totally dig that.

That way, I get my product, you get your money and there's no fear of it being reused or exploited.

Is there a way to barter "floral services" or web design services to help defray the cost of being able to have an online presence for the supplying florist? That way the Relay Florist (the middle man) gets cut out.

I checked out Interflora but noticed that their logo is the same as FTD's! Am I right? So aren't they just another Relay Florist? Correct me if I am wrong.

I also disagree with Gordon's comment that they flower order already exists and that the Relay Florist simply hijacks the order. I think the interest in the potential order exists but not the actual order, and the Relay Florist facilitates it so yes they provide a service, even if it is an unwarranted one, according to the local florist.

However, the Relay Florist's lack of transparency is still very bothersome to me.

I wish I would just call up my girlfriend's neighbour's kid and ask him to go pick some flowers from a garden nearby and deliver them to her. Then I would pay him! But alas, no!

Seriously, if one of those local florists would have their own web page up...that would help out. Think of it as an investment, not an expense.

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Comment - 23 January 2009
I, like many florists am struggling to make a living. Due to the severe competition in our industry and lack of camaraderie, relay services like Ready Flowers have been able to infiltrate the market under the guise of "Florists best friends" and have ended up dividing the industry even further and heading towards conquering us. Regrettably through apathy and indifference, Florists and consumers are allowing it to happen.

I joined with Ready Flowers as a supplying florist as they won me over with the idea of immediate payment for supplying orders they garnered from the internet, rather than wait a month to pay bills from the commissions I earned for supplying orders as some more reputable services need to do.

Desperate for money, I thought wow, what an opportunity! Great deal! Did I bother to care what the costs were? No! Did I check how much the customer was actually paying? No! Even though most of the orders paid a pittance, I put it down to customers not willing to pay a lot of money, but so what, hey, they are orders I didn't get before and a pittance of profit is still profit right? And every now and again, Ready Flowers throw in a massive order too.

The pittance I thought was profit was in fact debt that is paying for Ready Flowers to exist and one more dollar at least- into the red for me.

Your article shows the amount a florist receives for certain orders and what a huge commission Ready Flowers takes out.

Florists are also asked to pay an additional $55 membership fee per month for the chance* to accept orders sent by Ready Flowers.

*if the florist does not accept the order within a certain time frame delegated by Ready Flowers- the order is opened up to 3 other florists who may like the order. Florists must now spend time watching for e-mails to try and catch orders in time and they do not come at regular intervals-so the florist who can afford to pay someone to sit and watch a screen is the florist who gets the best orders.

What you allude to but probably couldn't find out from any florist unwilling to disclose its costings, is just how much money it actually costs to supply a Ready Flowers order. I will give you an example and the best one would be surprisingly, the easiest one to fulfill- Florist Choice bouquet. You already know how much the florist receives from Ready Flowers for a $59.90 Florist Choice bouquet so lets start there.

$15.30 + $9.90 delivery Here are the things to be factored into the costing of any bouquet :
•	Average time 30 minutes to make from beginning of contact to completion of bouquet to out the door;
•	Labour - what do you get per hour for work, half it and deduct it from the $15.30 and there is your starting point;
•	GST(10 %);
•	Running costs of shop-electricity, water, rates, etc. (commercial business rates);
•	Cost of flowers by the bunch-they don't come by the stem so even if you want one , the florist still has to buy the bunch;
•	Cost of greenery by the bunch;
•	Cost of wrapping-ribbon (per roll), paper (by ream), wet wrap for stems, etc.;
•	Cost of card, envelope, pen, benches, for message;
•	Cost of sundry items-cutting tools-sharpening, sticky tape;
•	Profit - I know Australians believe we buy at wholesale and sell for less, but it is a business;
•	And (arguably) finally-the coast of the $55 membership fee- how many orders must you accept to make profit to cover the fee as well as all other costs;
•	$15.30 for all of this;
•	$9.90 for the delivery including GST(providing your delivery is within a $9.90 fee otherwise you take out of your $15.30 any outstanding delivery fee- you are at liberty to request more delivery money from Ready flowers who deem that your order can not be done by you and usually send it on to somebody else- but don't ask for payment of the time wasted;
$34.70 taken from the $59.90 for Ready Flowers to step in between the customer and the florist who actually needs the $59.90 to supply the value of the requested order.

The Florists reputation is on the line and Ready Flowers offer no recognition to the recipient or purchaser that they have taken out commission. It becomes the florists fault.

The Floristry industry is suffering the most, consumers are being mislead but if they persist, they will get their money back from Ready flowers but they get to keep the flowers and the florist has to refund the full amount-(including delivery on occasion) to Ready Flowers to cover their costs for refunding- all part of paying them the $55 membership fee. Effectively- the florist has now paid Ready Flowers to supply the recipient with flowers they are not happy with.

Lastly, the recipient looses out by being disappointed with the floristry industry and will never buy flowers from that florist who is told by the customer that they spent so much money on them through Ready Flowers. That florist now loses customers and ready Flowers keeps getting more.

All because the consumer wants to deal immediately rather than spend a few more minutes on the web to make sure they get a good local florist- and because florists can't afford the time, money or energy on anything other than keeping their businesses open to feed themselves so they trust in Businesses like Ready Flowers to look after them and keep the florists interests at heart.

I was so wrong.

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Here is comment by a person who appears to operate a Relay Florist/Service and is believed to have provided a false name to the comment. The comment made on 20 January 2009 originated from the Information Technology Services LINK at the University of Queensland LINK. Responses in blue are by a publisher of Fair-Trading.com.au

Well it seems the knives are really out for the relay florists. Well just stop and think for a moment, what exactly are they doing? They are doing all the marketing and sales promotion for the local florist, all of the Internet Search Engine marketing, finding the customers and converting sales.
RESPONSE
Has any florist (real florist that is) actually asked you to perform this service?
If there is a customer in say Sydney that wants to send flowers to someone in Innisfail then the customer is going to contact a florist in Innisfail to perform the order, it's not difficult!! The potential flowers order is something that already exists and a Relay Service does not create it as you would have us believe. What the Relay Service does is intercept that process between the customer and florist for the benefit of the Relay Service.

Don't you think they should be able to charge for that service?
RESPONSE
Yes, but also do what any ethical business would do and state how much is being charged for the service.

Have you any idea on how much work is involved in getting a web site to the top of the Google search results?
RESPONSE
Yes, I am a website publisher and if the website subject is genuine and on target with the product or service being offered, then Google will not consider it a spam site and if the publisher knows what he or she is doing, achieving a good Google ranking is not difficult at all.

At the end of the day who perpetuates this scenario? The local florists by taking and fulfilling the orders (that they wouldn't have likely got otherwise).
RESPONSE
Well Jenny below thinks it may be the local paper boy AND as for, "that they wouldn't have likely got otherwise", absolute bullshit!! As said above, the flowers order exists by itself [in the mind of the consumer] without the interference from a Relay Service bludger.

Gordon Craven - research & law Fair-Trading.com.au

Comment by Jeff Clancy - 19 January 2009
My considered opinion is that these internet floristry- relay shonks are just money-grubbers. People are well advised to use a reputable and self-regulated organisation like Interflora and leave these rapacious back-yarders to their eventual demise.

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Comment by Bob Davis - 18 January 2009
RE: comment [below] by Nick Christensen - 16 January 2009 regarding "brokerage".

By definition in the context of flower purchasing, a broker would work with all florists to get the best deal for the online consumer.

It would seem that referring these relay services to be brokerages is incorrect. That's because as I understand it from this publication, the relay service invents and describes the product as its own, sets a price for the product, sells the product then goes about getting the best deal for itself in the provision of the product.

The latter part being without the consumer's knowledge, it would seem better described as a "scamerage" to me.

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Comment by Dale - 17 January 2009
Well hasn't all this finally opened a can of worms & exposed this group of "thieves". Having had the unfortunate experience to deal with this so called relay group in the past - I can assure you they are only in this business for one thing - and that's getting as much out of the florist industry as they can before it all comes crashing down.

I note that a couple of the comments refer to what the florists should / shouldn't be putting into the orders. BUT the number 1 issue no-one seems to be addressing is that if you are silly enough to accept a ReadyFlowers order in the 1st place - THEY tell you what to put in it so it is to "value" that they deem correct.

BUT - if they actually posted this information on the website so that the PAYING CUSTOMER knew exactly what they were getting in the flower order I would be very very confident that most customers would not place the order online in the first place.

As for RF customer service - it is nothing short of disgraceful. They just do NOT respond to customer issues & in turn issues we have as florists. They work on the "insurance company" principle - if you ignore the complaints long enough ... most complaints go away ... and as for the ones that don't go away - they just refund them to keep them quiet ... but the refund comprises all sorts of "deductions" that are hidden away on the "terms" page of their website.

In conclusion - well done to Gordon Craven for taking the time to expose these fraudsters at least at this level for now - here's hoping that now the ball's rolling, florists Australia wide will realise - just as Jenny has mentioned in her comments section - if florists DO NOT accept and / or process any RF order requests, then obviously they will eventually die a natural business death - which would be a huge favour for the entire florist industry - which is being bad mouthed as a whole for a perceived lack of value in orders - all because of "computer geeks" like this facade of a relay florist.

I strongly suggest to all florist if you have read this report & this comments section - you MUST take the time to express your disapproval as well ...

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Comment by Jenny - 16 January 2009
What an eye opener this is!!!

It occurs to me the game would be up if the florists who are supplying the orders for a pittance did not acquiesce in all this, it would appear that they are cutting their own throats. That's assuming of course that florists do actually supply the orders. Perhaps the online relay people send the orders to local paper boys who go and get some Coles supermarket flowers for delivery.

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Comment by Nick Christensen - 16 January 2009
It is an interesting point that is raised in your article.

Those of us in the trade know and understand how these "brokerage" deals work, but the consumer probably would have no idea.

Is it then reasonable to conclude that if the supplying or fulfillment florist is receiving only about 50% of the sale price of a product, that the actual product produced will always suffer from the "cost of production" pressure and will indeed, most likely, lead to a below value product being supplied? It is an interesting point to consider.

Another critical question is "why have the online transfer sites" been able to gain such traction in the marketplace?"

The ability to market and attract clients is the realm of marketing experts that so often own these sites. As long as the fulfillment florist understands the deal clearly before entering into it, then that is free trade.

Free trade however involves clearly stating to a consumer what they will be paying and what they will be receiving.

These sites would most likely protest their innocence stating that they instruct the supplying member florist to produce the item to full value. The issue is, even when the big guns in the flora industry struggle to get their paid members to execute orders for the full price, how then are transient brokerage suppliers going to be policed to provide full value when they normally have no equity share or interest in the deal to begin with?

Ultimately, the question of "does the flower buyer or receiver receive what they should with relation to volume and price per item?"

The only way to make sure is to deal direct with the florist producing your order.

By texting the word "flower" to 13TEXT you will be connected to the local florist in the area you are sending flowers too, or if none available, you will be offered the choice of going through to a florist who can place your order via a relay network, (we currently use the Petals Network) but you will be advised of that fact before it is done.

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Publisher's Reply to Nick Christensen - 16 January 2009
Thank you Nick and others below for your comments. It is good to hear from people in the flower industry that understand the problem.

I work in the florist industry on the Sunshine Coast and we mostly concentrate on the Noosa Region. If I go to Google and type in "Noosa Florist", leaving aside the paid entries and adwords, out of 10 free listings normally 3 would be genuine local florists with the remainder being Relay bludgers. This disturbs me as I believe it is unfair competition by just bludging on florist retailers whilst scamming consumers.

To answer your question, "why have the online transfer sites" been able to gain such traction in the marketplace?"
My view is because they publish such professional looking websites that would likely fool anyone.

Also, the question of "does the flower buyer or receiver receive what they should with relation to volume and price per item?"
Well this is the 64 million dollar question, given the factual data above I cannot see that the quality of flowers delivered matches the price paid for the magnificent looking bunch of flowers being offered for sale. In the circumstances of the glowing self serving descriptions on these bludger websites where commissions are failed to be disclosed, I believe the consumer (via trickery) is being denied being provided with an informed decision process. There is substantial Legal Authority to support that argument and if successful it is likely that contraventions of the Trade Practices Act (in particular section 52 & equivalent Fair Trading acts regarding persons) would result. In that case, any florist in Australia (perhaps even the world) who is suffering at the hand of these bludgers, would have an action in law against them.

On a brighter note, I have checked out the Send Flowers website which relates to the 13TEXT, it appears to be a truly honest and unique way to order flowers direct which I believe to be highly commendable and totally distinct from the undesirables mentioned elsewhere in this publication.

Best wishes,
Gordon Craven - research & law Fair-Trading.com.au

Comment by HR - 16 January 2009
Wow, very interesting read! It seems you are not keeping the information current and seems abandoned. Sadly, I've used other relay florists, such as FTD without realizing what was really going on.

So what are the alternatives besides (potentially) making a long distance or international phone call, talking to a complete stranger about ordering flowers that one, the consumer, may not be able to see at all, and giving him/her your credit card number or other sensitive data? And what if you don't even speak the same language?

I'd gladly cut out the middleman if there isn't transparency in what they are doing, despite the service they are providing.

Ideas?

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Publisher's Reply to HR - 16 January 2009
Thank you HR and others below for your comments.

Not sure what you mean by abandoned, publication of this page commenced on 5 January 2009. Anyhow, to respond to what alternatives there may be:

Firstly, unless dealing with a well recognised brand or organisation which I knew to be reputable, I would never give my credit card details to a website that does not publish a street address or full name of contact person as many Relay Florists seem to do;

Secondly, in the circumstances you provide where it may be difficult to deal direct, I would head off to a florist that deals with a legitimate relay service that I believed I could trust which has a legitimate membership worldwide. In my view that would be a service such as Interflora and if I were to initiate a flowers order that way I believe that all components of the transaction are made known to the consumer by the florist taking the order.

Best wishes,
Gordon Craven - research & law Fair-Trading.com.au

Comment - 10 January 2009
I am happy that someone is trying to expose these networks. They are flourishing to the detriment of the honest florists and their customers. Interflora is the same. I am the owner of (withheld), and receive customers concerns about ordering flowers online. We only supply the Gold Coast and have a great reputation but that does not stop customers being suspicious. I believe that we would receive more orders if the likes of Readyflowers.com.au and the others did not exist. www.findmeflowers.com.au is also misleading consumers. They have every florist, in Australia, on their site and link them to THOSE networks even though a lot of these florists are not members to that particular network. I have contacted ACCC to no avail. They said all we had to do is tell Find Me Flowers to take me off the list. Find Me Flowers should be told by ACCC to ask each and every florist if they would like their good name to be linked to any network and consequently not receive any orders. There are many florists who do not even know that they are on the list and their good name is being exploited to get orders to those networks.

I think it is a battle that cannot be won!

Thank you for your concern and effort to protect the small business owners.

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Comment by Tony Noel - 10 January 2009
Great work. We have been trying to educate the public for many years with respect to the very same scenario you depict above. We have alerted government authorities to these facts but with no effect. There is a particular website www.findmeflowers.com.au which has collated an enormous amount of information about retail florists. Most retail florists we have contacted are unaware that their details, that sometimes include ABN details, are being used. We would be grateful if you could suggest any way in which we could could put a stop to this website. Tony

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OTHER REVIEWS ON READY FLOWERS

Shop AU - Ready Flowers
Affiliate Scout - Ready Flowers
Another Brilliant RF Review - Disgusted, appalled, unsatisfied...horrible company...

MUST SEE LINKS

"Any individual can go out and create a
dot com website and collect flower orders"

1800-FLOWERS
Are You Getting Flowers That You Pay For?
•
"They'll collect the order, take fee. It goes through one of the wire services who takes their fee out of it and whatever's left over goes to the real florist. There are two cuts that can come out of it before the actual flower shop gets the order."
FROM THE DENVER NEWS
•
Ready Flowers

FlowerChat.com - Why your flowers don't look like the picture
•

YouTube - Online Flowers by Mail
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WINK NEWS CALL FOR ACTION
•
VISIT FlowerChat USA FLORIST BLOG ON THIS REVIEW
•
YouTube - FTD Flowers Ruins Valentines Day
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Florist Detective
•
3 Elements of a Florist Scam
•
USA Federal Trade Commission (FTC) on Petal Pushers
•
FlowerComplaint.Com
Tell Others of your Experience
Only You Can Shape & Refine the Future of the Floral Industry
•
FTD SUCKS with LOTS OF FEEDBACK
"....I get a call Saturday stating that the florist they sent the order
to will not fulfill the order for that price -
even though they are an FTD florist and I purchased the flowers from FTD.COM"

CATCH WORDS / PHRASES / LINKS FOR ONLINE FLORISTS REVIEW :
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